الهوية الآشورية والتسميات مقارنة بين الحقيقة والواقع

[Ashur Giwargis]

آشور كيواركيس – بيروت04/07/2005

[Hosni Antoon]

عـلـيـك أن لا تـدفـع كـل مـا طـلـبـه ( الـمـصـحـح الـلـغـوي ) لأنـه أغـفـل أخـطـاء كـثـيـرة فـي بـحـثـك ..!!
لـكـن كـيـف فـاتـك رفـع الـفـاعـل وعـدم ادخـال ( ال ) الـتـعـريـف عـلـى أداة الإسـتـثـنــاء .. ؟!!!

[Atouraya]

ارى من اجابتك لهذا المقال المرتكز على الحقائق التاريخية المعترف بها في كل ان نحاء بانك مخلص للغة العربية وهذ حق
فلا تتعجب اذا اخلص الاشوري الى قوميته ولغته الام، ولو لزم الامر لتكلم بالصينية لكي يدافع عن هذا التاريخ العريق وان يجمع كل اخوته في نفس ذلك البيت الاصيل، وسيدفع ايظا لمدقق اللغة الصيني ولو اخطاء بكلمة " الهاوا هاوا جيها "

فالهدف بالنهاية هو ايصال المعلومة بكل امانة وبدون تلاعب بالتاريخ

مع خالص تقديري لصاحب المقال

االقومية = اشورية.

[Ashur Sargon]

اشور كيواركيس

انت رسول الآشورية وصوت اشور الاله، اشور الأرض والآشوريين [/b]

[sawikka]

الاخ اشور المحترم
بما انك تبحث عن الحقائق وتنسبها الى مصادرها الم يكن اولى بك ان تذكر الاسم الكامل لاحد اهم مؤرخي كنيسة المشرق، القس بطرس نصري، واسمه الكامل كماتعرف جيدا القس بطرس نصري الكلداني وهو مكتوب كذلك على المصدر الذي ذكرته حول التسميه الجديده للكلدان بعد دخولهم الكثلكه، ولدي نسخه قديمه من الكتاب عمرها اكثر من 90عاما. اما ماكتبه بصدد الاشوريين ومن اين جاؤوا  لابد ان تكون قد قراته ولم يعجبك طبعا...اذا يااستاذ اشور اما ان تعترف بكل ماكتبه الرجل،اذا كنت انت نفسك تعتبره اهم مؤرخي كنيسة المشرق، وتذكر اسمه الكامل -للامانه التاريخيه- او تترك كتاباته لانها ليست بضاعه تختار منها ما تشاء.

[ACDF]

Further Comments on the Modern "Assyrians" ...............................
 

Preserving their religion, language, and the Eastern version of the Syriac alphabet, the Assyrian community is historically important and a tragic victim of 20th century conflict and nationalism. Because of that, I hesitate to say anything that might seem unkind. However, many Assyrians, as I have seen among my students, have not been content with the great significance of who they are but have cultivated an ethnic mythology that serves to translate what was in the Middle Ages primarily a religious and linguistic identity (Nestorian Christianity and Syriac speech) into what has so often been the bane of the 20th century:  an ethnic nationalism with a mythology that distorts history.

It has not been uncommon for modern nations and ethnic communities to develop inflated, self-serving ideas of their own importance to a deceptive and, especially when dealing with other communties, unhelpful level. In Egypt, people from the Coptic Christian community may claim that the Greek alphabet (which is used to write Coptic) was derived directly from ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, ignoring the the fact that the Greek alphabet was borrowed from the Phoenicians, whose own alphabet had been derived much more indirectly, if at all, from Egyptian [cf. p. 28, Who Are the Copts?, by Rev. Fr. Shenouda Hanna, Cairo, 1967]. Similarly, modern Greeks stoutly and famously maintain that the Modern Greek language, the lone surviving descendant of Classical Greek, is pronounced in exactly the same way as Classical Greek was 2500 years ago [note]. Such a thing is actually impossible (who has the "real" pronunciation of Latin? Italians? Spanish? Portuguese? Romanians? -- actually none); but if challenged, modern Greeks like to say, "We should know." They would know, in fact, if someone among them is more than 2000 years old and can actually remember the ancient pronunciation (there being no audio recordings from back then). Otherwise, they are not exempt from the obvious and natural drift in pronuncation that affects all languages. The proprietary claim, that members of a ethnic, national, or racial group have the right to say whatever they want about themselves, uncontradicted by others, is less paradoxical but morally far nastier [note].

Similarly, there are modern Christian Assyrians like to claim that, culturally, linguistically, and physically, they are the ancient Assyrians. With some, this goes so far as to say that they are the direct and "unmixed" descendants of the original and autochthonous inhabitants of historical Assyria. Since another way of putting that is that they are ethnically or even racially "pure," I begin to detect overtones that are disturbing, if not appalling, after the history of such claims in the 20th century. Fortunately, not all Assyrians insist on their ethnic purity, and one correspondent has helpfully informed me that Esarhaddon had an Aramaean mother (though I am otherwise not aware of the evidence for this). Since modern Assyrians speak the language of the Aramaeans, who swarmed over the Fertile Crescent from Damascus to Ur, one might wonder what happened to them and why some think that the modern Assyrians are not just the descendants of all the ancient peoples of Mesopotamia (Assyrians, Babylonians, Amorites, Sumerians, Hurrians, Kassites, Hittites, Aramaeans, etc.) who came to speak Aramaic and then Eastern Syriac and adopted Christianity. The modern "Chaldeans," indeed, cannot use that name without awareness that Eastern Syriac speaking Christians are descendants of Babylonians and Chaldeans as well as Assyrians and others. Why the emphasis of the Nestorians is now on the ancient Assyrians almost exclusively is then a good question -- perhaps because the community most recently was largely to be found in northern Iraq, and so in historical Assyria. Unfortunately, once the tendency was manifest to vest the emphasis on the Assyrians, the certainty of the case then becomes less a matter of the historical record than the sort of certainty that, "We should know." Where the historical record is inconvenient, as for those insisting on ethnic purity, various tendentious and distorted readings can than be offered from uncritical Classical historians and the, usually fragmentary, often ambiguous, but also misrepresented, ancient archaeology.

Physically, the people of northern Iraq, Moslems and Christians, probably are pretty much what the ancient people were. At the same time, the mixture of real ancient Assyrians with immigrant Aramaeans, which took place over many years, cannot now be unmixed and distinguished. When the Assyrian kingdom revived after 911 BC, recovering from the Aramaean migrations, the Assyrians at first drove Aramaeans out of the Tigris Valley and planted Assyrian colonies in captured cities to the west. Later, however, when constant war drained Assyrian manpower, they began to import Aramaean communities, perhaps even the Ten Tribes of Israel, into Assyria proper, assimilating them into the Assyrian population, army, and even administration. While this is celebrated by modern Assyrians as magnanimously conceding to foreigners the same rights and privileges as native Assyrians, it does have the awkward consequence that the naturalized Assyrians, under whose influence native Assyrians themselves began to speak Aramaic, subsequently are going to be indistinguishable from the natives. Later, when Aramaic speaking Babylonians and southern Mesopotamian Aramaeans (the true Chaldeans) converted to Christianty, there was going to be little left to differentiate the origins of the members, northern and southern, of the Eastern Syriac and Nestorian communities. Unless all those of Aramaean or Babylonian origin totally left, died, or converted to Islâm, members of the subsequent community cannot count on being the ethnically pure descendants of the ancient Assyrians and no one else.

And since Aramaeans elsewhere also came to be indiscriminately called "Assyrians" or "Syrians" by Persians and Greeks, almost unlimited confusion becomes possible. Nevertheless, in the Assyrian homeland in northern Iraq, where Assyrian gods continued to be worshiped for several centuries, we may assume that the descendants of the original Assyrian people, mixed or unmixed, will be found. Some intermarriage of Arabs and Turks, immigrants during the Middle Ages, can have occured, and this would have affected the Christian community less than converts to Islâm. Thus, as with the Copts in Egypt, the Christians could well represent the ancient physical type better than Moslems do. That the Christian community of northern Iraq should call itself "Assyrian," to distinguish it from (1) Moslem and Christian Syrians, and (2) Arabic speaking Iraqi Moslems, is reasonable enough considering where they are, the probable physical continuity, and their cultural and linguistic differences with surrounding Moslems; but saying more than that, as with this notion of the unmixed and autochthonous Assyrians, or to the exclusion of the Babylonian/Chaldean population, causes problems.

Beyond the questions of ethnic mixture or purity, it might strike one as unseemly that Christians should be at pains to get too excited over descent from a people who not only were not Christians but whose terror and brutality were a byword in the ancient world, and who were actually responsible for the disappearance or even extermination of the Ten Tribes of Israel (or who, ironically, could claim to be their descendants). For instance, after capturing one city, King Ashurnasirpal II says:

I built a pillar over against his city gate and I flayed all the chiefs who had revolted, and I covered the pillar with their skin. Some I walled up within the pillar, some I impaled upon the pillar on stakes, and others I bound to stakes around about the pillar... And I cut the limbs of the officers, of the royal officers who had rebelled... [Georges Roux, Ancient Iraq, Penguin, 1964, 1992, p.190]

This was a typical example of exemplary terror in Assyrian policy, measures that could not even be portrayed today outside of horror movies, but boasted of by the King. In Sacred History, where it involved Israel, this would make the Assyrians as much the moral equivalent of Babylon, Pharaoh, and worse -- not even Hitler got rid of so large a percentage of all Jews. Just as Egyptian Moslems often have mixed feelings about the ancient Egyptians, since Pharaoh is not spoken of well in the Qur'ân (or the Bible), which has led some Moslem fundamentalists to advocate destroying the ancient monuments (as when the Sultan of Egypt, alMalik al'Azîz 'Uthmân, 'Imâd adDîn, the son and successor of Saladin, tried to tear down the Pyramid of Menkaure in 1196 -- producing "Othman's Breach," a big, but not very big, hole in the side of the pyramid), one might expect Iraqi Christians to have mixed feelings about the ancient persecutors and murderers of Israel. Instead, they often seem eager to claim absolute identity with them and even to belittle and denigrate ancient Israel, excusing Assyrian terrorism with equivalent actions taken by the Israelites.

Now to one of a secular persuasion, like myself, the moral equivalence of the Assyrians and Israelites would tend to discredit them both as paradigms of esteem or emulation. From a religious point of view, however, it would seem inescapable that if the Israelites were simply doing what God ordered, in order to take possession of the Promised Land, then the complaint should be with God, not with Israel. That the Hebrews, not the Assyrians, were the Chosen People of God is certaintly as fundamental to Christianity as to Judaism. But what has always been the anti-religious project of treating the Old Testament as the mere history of a small and rather nasty Middle Eastern kingdom, has now been taken up by some Assyrians in order to dismiss the signifiance of Old Testament religion for Christianity itself. What used to be merely the scholarly project of tracing Jewish and Christian religious themes back to earlier mythology -- for instance that the Flood was a common idea in ancient Mesopotamian religion (as in the Epic of Gilgamesh) -- has now been taken up by some Assyrians into an extraordinary and bizarre project of tracing what is significant in Christianity directly to the ancient Assyrians.

Correspondents have thus called my attention to the work of Dr. Simo Parpola, Professor of Assyriology at Helsinki University, whose project seems to be to retroactively apply an anachronistic and grotesquely overinterpreted reading to Assyrian and Babylonian religion, an "esoteric" interpretation that he then can use to claim that all subsequent religion and philosophy, from Pythagoras to Christianity, has simply employed the esoteric knowledge that already existed in Mesopotamia and was secretly conveyed to the later figures. As secular history, this is baseless and profoundly ahistorical (not to mention subject to dispute by Afro-centrists making similar claims about the esoteric knowledge of Egypt "stolen" by the Greeks, etc.). As religious history, I would expect Christians to regard it as blasphemous -- Jesus Christ is not the Savior because he is a remote reproduction of, of all things, the King of Assyria.

These strange permutations would seem to be characteristic of a strategy to nationalize Christianity away from its historic and doctrinal roots in Judaism. This is not surprising in a project of ethnic nationalism, but it should be disturbing for anyone with either a historical or a religious regard for the integrity of the Judeo-Christian tradition and Christian church history -- not to mention the possible anti-Semitic overtones of any effort to de-Judaize Christianity. Something tells me that the Pope would take serious exception to this if such ideas spread among the modern Chaldeans.

While people are free to make up any religion and call it what they like, it is a shame when a genuine and impressive tradition, that of Nestorian Christianity, with a history of more than 1500 years, is traded in for an invented and dishonest one, especially when the ancient Assyrians, with an empire based on force, massacre, and deportations, hardly seem like a people to idealize and emulate. Jesus Christ as the "Prince of Peace" certainly has no antecedent in Ashurbanipal. The modern Assyrians, as with many nations, like England, are a synthesis of various elements, which can now hardly be separated. England is neither essentially Saxon nor essentially Norman; it is both -- while the people often physically seem to be identical with the Brythonic Celts who inhabited the place under Rome. Similarly, the Assyrians are neither essentially ancient Assyrian, nor essentially Aramaean, Babyonian, Chaldean, or Christian, but all of these in a unique, venerable, and important synthesis, with an admirable history, which modern Assyrians would do well to celebrate on its own terms.

One thing I found an Assyrian student claiming, indeed the very first thing that came to my attention about all this, was that, not just are they the pure descendants of the ancient Assyrians, but their language is the direct descendant of the ancient Assyrian language. The falsehood of this is beyond doubt (cf. W.M. Thackston, Introduction to Syriac, Ibex Publishers, Bethesda, Maryland, 1999, p.vii; and John Huehnergard, A Grammar of Akkadian, Scholars Press, Atlanta, Georgia, 1997, p.xxi). The modern Christians speak the Eastern dialect of Syriac, which developed out of Aramaic. Aramaic is rather closely related to Hebrew and Arabic and only distantly related to ancient Assyrian. Assyrian and Babylonian were both developments of the even more ancient Akkadian, whose records go back well before Hebrew, Aramaic, or Arabic were even written languages. The Akkadians inherited the civilization started by the Sumerians, whose own language was entirely unrelated to Akkadian (and so to Assyrian, Babylonian, Hebrew, Aramaic, or Arabic). Indeed, the affinities of Sumerian are entirely unknown, although the reasonable speculation is that it was related to other vanished ancient languages, like Elamite, Kassite, and Hurrian, and perhaps the modern languages of the Caucasus. The ancient Assyrian language largely ended in the Fall of Assyria, even as Aramaic speaking nomads had spread over the region and the dialects of their language were replacing all the older languages, from Babylonian to Hebrew to Phoenician. Fragmenatary Assyrian documents occur for a few years after the Fall, and then disappear forever.

Most absurdly, an Assyrian student even claimed to be, not just a descendant of the Assyrians, but even of the Sumerians themselves, whose homeland was rather distant from Assyria, and who ceased to exist as a distinct linguistic community after the end of the III Dynasty of Ur (2112-2004 BC). If the evidence for this is that "We should know," then memory has done for the Christian Assyrians what it has done for no one else on earth. This is in the same category as the English "remembering" that they are actually one of the Ten Tribes of Israel. History means written records, documents and inscriptions. Oral traditions become muddled quickly, turning Minoan palaces into prisons for monsters. Real ancient Assyrian records end with fall of Nineveh, and there is no shred of evidence or logic that the Assyrians were somehow the special descendants of the Sumerians.

Although I am now informed that these claims about Aramaic and the Sumerians are not generally held by Assyrians, it has also come to my attention that other claims and confusions about the languages may be. Thus, since the word "Syrian" appears to be a derivative of "Assyrian," and as speakers of Aramaic came to generally be called either "Syrians" or "Assyrians," and the language itself ultimately "Syriac," the claim can be made that all Syrians, or all speakers of Syriac, were all descendants of the ancient Assyrians! Since Greek and Roman historians speak of the inhabitants of Syria, and even of Babylon, as "Syrians," because of their language, it then becomes possible to claim that the Babylonians themselves must really be Assyrians. Thus, one of the causes of the actual downfall of Assyria, the advent of the Aramaeans, is turned around into a means of spreading the Assyrians to everywhere that the Aramaeans ever went. This is very bizarre when applied to Babylon (where the Chaldean Aramaeans supplied the last Dynasty), but still peculiar enough when applied to Syria. Thus, the Roman Emperor Elagabalus, whose mother was Syrian, can be claimed as an Assyrian himself. However, the error in this is evident from the very name of the Emperor:  El was an ancient Syrian god, not an Assyrian one. (The related word in Assyro-Babylonian simply meant "god," not a particular god as in Syria-Phoenicia-Palestine.) The inhabitants of Syria at the time of the final Assyrian conquest were the speakers of the ancient Canaanite languages related to Phoenician, Hebrew, etc. (as at the city of Ugarit), the Neo-Hittites cities in the north, left over from the collapse of the earlier Hittite Empire, whatever would have been left of the Hurrian-Mitanni people who had dominated the great bend area east of the Euphrates river (see the map above), and the recently arrived Aramaeans, whose petty kingdoms reached and spilled over the Habur River. The Hittites and Mitanni were Indo-European speakers, and the Hurrian language was unrelated to either Indo-European or Semitic languages. While the Assyrians certainly wouldn't have minded colonizing the region with Assyrian settlements, they really did not have the population to do that. The Assyrian dilemma was quite the opposite:  attempting to restrain the tide of Aramaeans and other non-Assyrians from overrunning the Assyrian homeland along the Tigris. Assyrian colonization efforts were with the peoples they deported from one area to another -- then ultimately into Assyria to assimilate them as Assyrian subjects.

Some Assyrians also claim that the Hebrew alphabet was invented by them. This claim can arise because the familiar "square script" of the Hebrew alphabet was not the ancient alphabet of Palestine, similar to the Phoenician alphabet, but a version of the Aramaic alphabet, originally adopted by the Jews of the Babylonian community and called, from the location and language, 'Ashshûrî (cf. The Early Alphabet by John F. Healy, The University of California Press/British Museum, 1990, p. 43). Again we have the now familiar identities of Aramaic with Assyrian with Syrian with Syriac. Christian Assyrians are related to this only because they are what remains of Aramaic speakers, though both their language (Syriac) and their alphabet (Syriac) have undergone considerable changes since that period. If what they mean to claim is that they originally invented the alphabet as such, then they go too far, since the Aramaic alphabet itself is a version of the older alphabet used originally by Hebrews, Phoenicians, and others.

Among other self-flattering Assyrian stories from my students is one that the Persian Empire was conquered, not by the Persians, but by Assyrians hired by Cyrus the Great. Why Iranian peoples who were largely responsible for the destruction of Assyria itself, to an extent that an Assyrian state really never existed again, would then need the help of their crushed former enemies to extend their own conquests, assimilating them into the new tactics and equipment used by the Persian army, is unclear. Some of the documentary evidence cited for this is the list given by Herodotus of the ethnic units conscripted into the Persian army, which included people identified by Herodotus as, alternatively, "Syrians" or "Assyrians." As above, this confusion of people from northern Iraq with those of the Levant can be seized upon to mean that the people were all true ethnic Assyrians. The actual text gives no hint of how many ethnic Assyrians would be involved. They have really disappeared into the growing sea of Aramaic speakers. Furthermore, the ethnic units in the Persia army were not the core of the army. Conscipted subject peoples could never be entirely trusted. The core of the army would have to be Iranian, like the 10,000 "Immortals" -- called that because casualties were immediately replaced, an uncommon practice even in modern armies.

Claims to be the actual people who founded the first civilization, invented writing and then the alphabet, and then were the secret power behind later empires may well enhance the "self-esteem" of the people who make them, but they are tragic and disgraceful when they replace with fiction the real history that is unique and significant enough. The translation of Greek philosophy into Arabic, when it came, was often based on the precedent of translations into Syriac that were made first in Late Antiquity. Christian missionaries who turned up the court of T'ang Dynasty China in 635 were Nestorians all the way from Iraq. This has to have been some of the most ambitious and dangerous missionary work ever undertaken by Christians. Their own Syriac alphabet then became the basis for the alphabets used in Central Asia by the Uigers, Mongols, and Manchurians. That alphabet until recently was still used to write Mongolian. With all this fascinating and important history, it is seems shameful to ignore or belittle it in favor of inventions that magnify an earlier and very different culture and religion, with the implication of insulting the roots of Christianity itself in ancient Israel. The ancient Assyrians, in short, are not worthy of the mediaeval and modern Assyrians.

I originally wrote these remarks in order to have something to which I could refer Assyrian students, who might make some of these claims in class, so that I wouldn't have to argue with them and waste time in class about it. Since this material has been posted with my other class materials on the Internet, however, I have been contacted by some Assyrians who have wanted to straighten out the "mistakes" in the account. Since I am not the specialist in ancient history, Assyriology, or linguistics, I am really not the person to whom people should complain about any of this. What I have presented simply seems to me the standard and well established scholarly understanding of these matters, as I have gathered from many sources over the years, all the way back to my class in ancient Middle Eastern history at the American University of Beirut in 1970. Anyone who has complaints about my treatment should first consult some standard sources, as follows. More importantly, readers should actually pay attention to what is asserted here. I receive e-mail, even telephone calls, from people who have apparently overlooked much of this treatment, for instance thinking that I deny that the modern Assyrians are descended from the ancient Assyrians at all. I fear for the state of reading comprehension if anyone reading all this could think that.

The best general ancient history of Sumeria, Babylonia, and Assyria that I am aware of is Ancient Iraq by Georges Roux (Penguin Books, 1966, 1980, 1992). Roux's admiration for the Assyrians leads him to tone down his characterization of their ferocity, but his description of events and quotations from Assyrian records speak for themselves. His description of the ethnic communties of the ancient Middle East is thorough and excellent. No one is going to confuse the Aramaeans with the Assyrians from his account. More varied and recent information can be found in The Oxford Companion to Archaeology, edited by Brian M. Fagan (Oxford University Press, 1996). This book draws on the knowledge of literally dozens of specialists. Particular attention should be paid to the sections "Mesopotamia: Assyria," pp. 455-456, and "Near East: Iron Age Civilizations in the Near East," pp. 496-498. Especially, it should be noted that:

The Assyrian heartland occupied a triangular region bounded by the Tigris and Lesser Zab Rivers to the west and southeast respectively, and by the lower elevations of the Zagros Mountains to the north. From the middle of fourteenth century B.C. to the end of the seventh century B.C., this area....formed the irreducible core of the Assyrian state, from which it grew during expansionist periods and to which it retreated in times of weakness. [p. 455]

This is worthy of attention because I have now seen claims that the Assyrian heartland was all the space between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, reaching well over into northern Syria, and that the city of Harran, in the great bend of the Euphrates, which later contained an Assyrian palace and administrative center, and to which the last Assyrian kings retreated under the onslaught of the Babylonians and Medes, was an ethnically Assyrian city. Instead, that northern Syrian area, and that city, may at first have had undifferentiated Akkadian speakers, and then were Hurrian and Neo-Hittite, eventually covered by Aramaeans, whose city-states, the Oxford Companion says, "stretched from the Upper Tigris River south through the Habur River area to the Euphrates River" [p. 498 -- the Habur River is labelled on the map above]. Indeed, Tiglathpileser III (744-727), in initiating the policy of deportation and forced resettlement, transfered 18,000 Aramaeans from the left bank of the Tigris to northern Syria [Roux, p. 307]. Maps of the Assyrian heartland can be found in the Cultural Atlas of Mesopotamia and the Ancient Near East, by Michael Roaf [Facts on File, Inc., Andromeda Oxford Ltd., 1966, 2000, p.160] and in the Historical Atlas of the Ancient World, 4,000,000-500 BC by John Haywood [Barnes & Noble, 2000, §1.12].

Linguistic resources for Akkadian and Assyro-Babylonian are disgracefully thin, but there is A Manual of Akkadian by David Marcus (University Press of America, 1978) and A Grammar of Akkadian by John Huehnergard, (Scholars Press, Atlanta, Georgia, 1997). A good general discussion of the relationships among Afro-Asiatic and Semitic languages may be found in Ancient Egyptian, A linguistic introduction, by Antonio Loprieno (Cambridge University Press, 1995, p. 1-5), discussed elsewhere.

How appropriate the exaltation of the Assyrians may be for Christians is not ultimately for me to say. How accurate it may be to trace Christianity to Assyria rather than to Judea can easily be resolved by almost any study of Church history in Late Antiquity, as dealt with in the many sources cited in "Decadence, Rome and Romania, the Emperors Who Weren't, and Other Reflections on Roman History". The moral appropriateness of projects to fictionalize history, especially in the interest of racial purity, is for me, and anyone, to say:  It is reprehensible

[Atouraya]

طبعا اي واحد يقراء هذا البحث الرائع ولا يعجبه، فسوف يبحث عن الاغلاط الاملائية او ذكر جد احد المستشهدين بالقومية الاشورية وما من ذلك من الحجج الفارغة

طبعا اشعر بالمرارة بان في سنة 2005 وما زال الاشوري يقنع اخاه الاشوري بانهم من اصل واحد!!
الى متى، يا اخوان مشكلتنا ليست باثبات من هو من!!  نحن كلنا اشوريون ، نعم هذا تاريخنا ونفتخر به
ان من يحاول زرع الانفصال بيننا فلا يخدم الا مصالح اعدئنا وذلك عن طريق نشر الفتن بين ابناء الشعب الواحد


االقومية = اشورية.

[Ashur Sargon]

رد على ACDF

الى ACDF  انه لمن المضحك جدا بان تنشروا شى لم تفهموه وماهي مصداقية الشخص الذي كتب هذه ال Essay ، ] لمجرد ان يكون المقال ضد الآشورية والآشوريين. كاتبها يطعن ماكتب ويعترف ويقول انه ليس بمؤرخ ولا باللغوي، وهذا ماكتب في احدى السطور التي اقتبستها من ماكتب: [/b]
" Since I am not the specialist in ancient history, Assyriology, or linguistics, I am really not the person to whom people should complain about any of this.".[/b][/color]

" Since I am not the specialist in ancient history, Assyriology, or linguistics, I am really not the person to whom people should complain about any of this.".[/b[/color]][/color]

هل مصداقيتكم كمصداقية كاتب المقال يا ACDF ؟

اشور سركون

[Eissara]

It seems that those at ACDF have forgotten the rules of giving credit to something that they haven't written ,nor bothered to think about before copying and pasting and that shows clearly how they can't bring their own arguments so they cling to any thing that they can get their hands on without even reading what they are copying and pasting.

What the ACDF has pasted is from writings by Kelley L. Ross Ph.D who has written few things before about Assyrians and it's regrettable that a person of his stature who has a doctorate degree would put himself into the same mistaken position of not researching his own information before writing it down.

He is clearly saying that he is neither a historian nor a linguist and as such whatever he writes or has written against the Assyrians will only remain a personal point of view and as such can't be relied upon as an accredited research because he didn't come up with his own conclusions after researching them but rather he also copied off what other writers wrote and he admits to that as well.

Dr. Ross like many others is only sending bubbles into the air and his writings will not affect the reality or the truth of whom are the descendants of the Assyrians or what is the identity of today's Assyrians.

At the end even Prof. Ross was embarrassed about what he had written and followed with an editorial note when he first wrote about the Assyrians:"What followed here was my critique of various claims made by modern Assyrians about themselves, about their language, and about the ancient Assyrians. This critique was hotly disputed and regarded as "anti-Assyrian" by many Assyrians, which it was not. Many people interpreted the criticism as denying that modern Assyrians are descended from ancient Assyrians at all, which it did not do. People also seem to have taken the idea that I thought they should not call themselves "Assyrians." I never thought so or said so".

Prof. Ross had thought that he could write any thing and no one would verify or answer to his false claims but to his great surprise he received so many emails,telephone calls and answers in regards to his writings which made him reconsider what he had written.

The same applies to all those who think that by cutting and pasting without mentioning the name of the writer they will be able to get away with it!!! Well ACDF and others don't just cut and paste do your homework and put an effort to write something as Mr. Ashur Giwargis does all the time and that is how you will learn the truth and not by cutting and pasting..... Better luck next time because you will dearly need it.

[Mousa Chamoun]

الاخ اشور.
انكم تصيبون الصميم في جميع مقالتكم و مداخلاتكم .
وكما يقولون في العامية الحقيقة بتجرح .

نعمة المسيح معك امين.

[butros tshaba]

شكرا ً على أداء واجبك
دمتم لأمتنا الآشورية سيفا ً ساطعا ً

أخوكم بطرس

[SUMARY]

الاخ اشور كوركيس المحترم

تحيه من سهل نينوى ارض الاباء والاجداد بكافة مذاهبهم المسيحييه!!!؟

في البدايه
احييك على كل كلمة كتبتها !!!؟

عزيزي اشور
العراقيين يقولون اذا صعب عليك اصلك فاسال جيرانك!!!؟ ونحن جيراننا هم الفرس (ايران) والعرب (من العراقيين وغيرهم) والاكراد (البهدينان والصوران) والاتراك (التركمان وتركيا اليوم) وايضا (الارمن العراقيين)!!!؟ جميعهم يقولون او ينادوننا بالاثوريين او اليوم بالاشوريين !!!؟

اخي
ان كنيستنا الكلدانيه لايخفي عنها مثل هكذا حقائق!!!؟ وايضا لاتنسى ليس الجميع ابرار !!!؟ فالمثقف او الواعي يستطيع ان يفرز الحقيقه حتى لو كان اعمى!!!؟ لست في دفاع عن كنيستي المقدسه (الكلدانيه) ولكنها تحوي رجال دين وشمامسه مثقفيين وواعين يدركون الحقيقه التي يحاول جاهد البعض من هم بالامس (لا يعرف اصله) تشويها على ابناء طائفتنا الكلدانيه!!!؟ وايضا بنظره الى المتشددين منهم ضد التسميه الاشوريه سنراهم يحملون فايلات شخصيه ذليله والتي يشمئز القارىء من قراتها!!!؟ ويستطيع القاريء التاكد من صحة ذلك!!!؟

اتذكر ما قاله لي صديقي العزيز محيبس من ايه في القران الكريم:

افلم يسيروا في الارض فتكون لهم قلوب يعقلون بها او اذان يسمعون بها فانها لا تعمي الابصار ولكن تعمى القلوب التي في الصدور............ سورة الحج الايه 46
اي بمعنـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــى اخر  (الغرض يعمي البصيره) !!!؟ ولكم الحكم ياقراء!!!؟

تقبل تحياتي يا اشور المحترم واشكرك على هذه المقاله المليئه بالحقائق والتي ستدفع المعادين للتسميه الاشوريه الى تكثيف من دراسة الكتب التاريخيه!!!؟

شكرا لادارة عنكاوة المحترمين


                                                                     الذي يسال جاره دائما
                                                                     شماشا سومــــــــــــر

 

[senyorashory]

الى السيد اشور كوركيس المحترم
شلاما دمارن الوخ
احييك واشد على يديك المباركة يااصيل ابن الأصيل ان الحقائق التي اضهرتها من على هذا
المنبر الموقر سوف تكون المسمار الأخير الذي يدق على نعش التسميات المبتدعة والمركبة والقطارية
لاسمنا المقدس الأشوريين هذا الاسم الذي اعطى الغالي والنفيس والشهداء الأبرار الذين امنوا
بإن نيل حقوقنا الطبيعية في ارضنا ارض اشور سوف يكون له ثمن غالي ويجب ان نحميه ونرويه
بدمائنا الطاهرة لكي تفتخر الأجيال القادمة بماضينا العريق والأصيل ..
مرة اخرى اخي العزيز سر الى الأمام ولاتهتم للفقاعات الوقتية وكل اشوري اصيل سوف يساندك يااصيل...
اشوري

[Nabil Marogel]

امثالك ياملفونو اشور هم رجالات الامة الاشورية الذين اعطوا كل ما لديهم حتى دمائهم بذلوها من اجل ان تبقى هذه الامة خالدة ابد الدهر لا تهزها رياح عاتية ولا امواج عالية
انتم الصوت الحي لهذه الامة التي كانت وما زالت وستبقى حتى تشرق الشمس مرة اخرى على ابنائها لانهم يستحقون العيش بكل حرية وكرامة لانهم ينحدرون من سلالة شعب تاريخي عرف بالنبل والصحافة واتحف العالم بالكثير من الهبات العلمية والروحية والمادية
تحياتي لك واتمنى ان تستمر دائما بكتابة هكذا مواضيع قيمة نحن بامس الحاجة لقرائتها من جديد في هذا الزمن الذي كثرت فيه التشويهات لتاريخنا.

نبيل ماروكي ـ يوتبوري ـ السويد

[zadok]

السيد اشور ...
الله  يكثر من امثالك وامثال بطرس شابا وســـركون داديشو ومتم لأمتنا الأشوريه وانا دما لكم ولقضيتنا الأشوريه.


   اشـــــوري من اقليم اشور.

[عصام المـالح]

الاخ اشور كيوركيس المحترم
   تحية اشورية خالصة

لا يسعني الا ان احييك على هذا البحث الرائع  والذي بالحق يساعد كل من يريد ان يصل الى الحقيقة وكل من يسأل من "انا". انك اختزلت معظم الكتب التاريخية المهمة في هذا البحث الرائع لينير طريق كل من يسير في الظلام. اتمنى من الرب ان يكون خير دليل لكل الخيرين من ابناء شعبنا . وليبارك الرب

عصام المالح

[ACDF]

Dear Sir,
We have every right to quote Historians and University professors to dispute your claims, in your articles you are denying the existence of the Chaldeans, let us have mutual respect for each other and work for unity not division.
Lucas Van Rompay, a professor of Eastern Christianity at Duke University, said the Assyrian Christian quest
for self-determination parallels the rise of nation states across the world during the late 19th century. But whether there was a direct link between these Christians and the ancient Assyrian Empire is disputed.
"It's difficult to establish a real connection," said van Rompay. "It's a political issue."
After World War I when the British ruled over Iraq, Assyrian Christians were promised some sort of independence especially in the north, where most of them lived. That never materialized, and over the years many Assyrian Christians emigrated to the United States, especially California, where many now live.

[ACDF]

Chaldees is only the names of the ancestors of today's Iraqis. Iraq, Ur, Chaldees, Iraq, Iraqis same thing, just different names given by the political powers.

GENESIS 11:27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran fathered lot.
GENESIS 11:28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
The garden of Eden was in Iraq. No matter what political powers have changed it's name, it is the same place and no matter who has changed the names of their descendants, today's Iraqis are the descendants of the ancient Chaldeans.
GENESIS 11:31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came to Haran, and lived there.
GENESIS 15:7 And he said to him, I am the Lord that brought you out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give you this land to inherit it.
All the Arabs the Israelites fought against, is exactly who they were themselves and who they came from.


2_KINGS 24:2 And the Lord sent against (the tribe of Judah) bands of the Chaldees ... against Judah to destroy it,
Of course the people of Judah came from Chaldeans, Syrians, Moabites and the children of Ammon and they never ceased to marry them and produce children with them.
Iraq was at the center of Babylon. Iraq or Ur is the land Abraham and Sarah came out of. Abraham and Sarah were Chaldeans themselves. The name of the place today is Iraq. The Iraqi's ancestors were the people Sarah and Abraham came out of.
NEHEMIAH 9:7 You art the Lord who choose Abram, and brought him forth out of Ur/Iraq of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;

BABYLON / UR / IRAQ = SAME PLACE

For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
ISAIAH 48:20 Go you forth of Babylon, flee you from the Chaldeans

Of course the Israelites were taken captivity in Iraq or Babylon and of course the Israelite women were taken by the men who wanted them. This is NOT written any where ! It is ONLY my assumption ... as I would assume women taken by any historic culture would have been taken by men.

JEREMIAH 24:5 Thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.
JEREMIAH 32:28 Therefore thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will give this city into the hand of the Chaldeans, and into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and he shall take it:
JEREMIAH 43:3 But Baruch the son of Neriah setteth you on against us, for to deliver us into the hand of the Chaldeans, that they might put us to death, and carry us away captives into Babylon.


a) All Israelites on earth began with the stock of Chaldeans / Iraqis and Syrians. The Israelites were taken back to Iraq in captivity and of course the only Israelite women who did not get poked were those protected by the ugly stick. The Israelites took the Arab women in their power. There is a list of the kings of Israel who produced their children with them.

b) The ancestors of the modern day Iraqis and the ancestors of the bible Israelites are one. When the Israelites left Iraq of course there were a multitude of Israelite women and children who had been assimilated into the into the nation of Babylon / Iraq.

c) Today the descendants of those Israelites are mostly Muslims would be the best guess. Their religion does not change the fact of their heritage.

The paragraphs a, b and c are only my assumptions. There is NO written information to back it up, but we know these assumptions are true or false. If my assumptions are false then you would have to assume the Babylonians had thousands of captive women they were physically attracted to ... and they had the power to take, but they did not take them because they were good guys. You tell me Jethro, which is your bet?

In any event the ancestors of the present day Iraqis were the stock of ever living Israelites.
GENESIS 11:31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan;

[tony38]

تحيه الئ السيد اشور والئ المتحاورين،كثيرا ماتكلمنا عن تاريخ وهذا شي جيد ولكن الا ترون بان اليوم والمستقبل اهم لنا وخصوصا في العراق حاليا ،تتكلمون عن ذاك الاسم او هاذا الاسم والجميع نسيئ ضروف العراق وماهي مصالح شعبنا وما هوا الاسم الذي سوف يجلب لنا الحقوق؟

نصيحه اخويه لكم ان ترجعوا الئ الوطن ومن هناك ناضلو وناقشوا ، ليسئ في الانترنيت تحصلون علئ الحقوق

[Ashur Sargon]

To ACDF

ACDF,

Greetings in Assyrianism,

By all means my dear brethrens in nation Assyria, you are free to post whatever you posses of knowledge to educate and enlighten us here and all the readers, by copying and pasting articles or essays of authors and professors of knowledge.

I don’t think I or any of the brethrens here who are participating on the wonderful article written by our brother Ashur Giwargis, asked you not to post or participate. I for my self asked if you are credible as the author who you copied and pasted from his essay, simply the author contradicted his belief and contradicted the whole text in his article, when he admitted that he is neither linguist nor a historian. The idea is that we are learning from each others here, and most definitely we did from what our brother Ashur Giwargis wrote. I my self hate to see a brother of mine like you posting something that has no credibility like you did with the article you posted. Knowledge is power and it is a betterment of a society, and in this case I would like to see and know that my people in nation Assyria are powerful in great-unlimited sea of knowledge.

Yours in Assyrianism,

Ashur Sargon

[/b][/color]

[Ashur Giwargis]

الأخوة المتحاورون

شكراً على ردودكم ومشاركاتكم، وأرجو ألا يؤخذ هذا البحث كتحدّي أو منافسة لأحد، بل نحن هنا جميعاً نتبادل الآراء بحسب قناعاتنا، ولكن هناك منطق وحقيقة يجب مراعاتهما في طروحاتنا وعلينا التفكير بالمستقبل.

الأخ Tony

عندما ينكر الآشوري قوميته فهو يعتدي على تاريخه، لذلك المسألة هي مسألة تاريخ، وفهم التاريخ يمهّد لنا المستقبل.

آشور

[Yousip Enwiya]

Shlama akhona  Ashur Giwargis, I'm very happy to read your artical which it sheds lights on our great history.However,I have to admit that I do support our unity with all our beautiful names.Brother Ashur,you know very well that this is the most dangrous time our nation is going through and as a small nation with most of our people are outside the homeland, so do you think that spliting our small nation will help us in the long run???For me personally the only way out of this problem that we are faceing is by uniting all our forces for the good of us all and more importantly for the good of our homeland(ASHUR(it's up to us all to work togther  if we really want something good for this poor and small nation of us all.

Yours very truly

Yousip
USA

[youhunna]

There is no Assyrian nation and there will never be one. Less than 80,000 will never be able to start a country and a nation especially when they can’t see reality and when the driving factor and motivation is a blind foolish obstinacy and inflexibility guiding their cause like a progressively dimming and ultimately vanishing light. This century old dream that was planted by force and deception in some primitive and unfortunately thence naïve bystanders is unrealistic and perusing such a dream that is based and built on false premises and despite is actually quite dangerous because it ultimately turns into a nightmare.  This is what I have been talking about al along earlier in many of my replies about typical Assyrians drinking at night and raising Assyria from the dead! Soon after waking up the next morning, the grim reality is staring in their face.  This is a great example- Just an article that was not even written by one of them; rather, it was as usual- a selective cut and paste that convinced many of the half brains who are clinging by the skin of their teeth to such a false hope knowing fully well that the end of this stubborn and unnecessary run will eventually come to a swift halt when they face the great wall of disappointment after they crash and burn.  I feel empathy for those lost soles especially when I read their praising comments to one another like a bunch of children having a little boy’s game among them because they can’t hack it on their own at a different level in a different arena. I know no one pays them any attention because the majority sees what I see which is basically no hope for what they are clinging to- much to their chagrins.

Youhunna

Chaldean Babylonian

[tony38]

الئ الاخ اشور كيوركيس بعد التحيه،،،،لو كان هناك من ينكر اشوريته مكان هناك نضال وتضحيه بااغلا شي وهوا الحياة ،فهناك شباب تضحي بحياتها في الوطن ،كيف يمكن لك ياكاتبنا العزيز ان تتهم هولاء بانهم ينكرون قوميتهم،الي ينكر قوميته هو الذي غادر الوطن ولم يرجع اليها خاصة بعد سقوط نضام صدام،وهذا كلام يخص الكل ،الكن لا تنسئ ياسيد العزبز اشور بان هناك سياسه واستغلال الفرص ،

سوالي لك هل تريد اسم بدون حقوق او اسم مركب لنا حقوق؟

[Adib Isho]

الأخ اشور كيواركيس

تستحق كلمة شكر على هذا الجهد الذي بذلته و الذي يعبر عن ولاء الابن البار لأمته .

بدات بحثك الوافي هذا بجملة معبرة لبوذا !
و للضائعين على مفترق الطرقات من ابناء شعبنا الآشوري ، ابعث إليهم بجملة اخرى و هي لغاندي ،على امل ان يهتدوا إلى الطريق قبل فوات الاوان :
 ( لا يوجد طرق للسلام ، بل السلام هو الطريق ) و اللبيب من الاشارة ...

اديب ايشو

[ACDF]

Gabriel Aframs dictionary or the "assyrian" propaganda caravan


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[ Chaldeans Discussion Forum ]



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Written by United-Suryoye on 10 Mar 2005 02:16:37:



It has now been the third time that "Assyrian" organizations e-mailed us about the glorious news concerning Mr. Gabriel Afram, who finally published his long-awaited dictionary "Assyrian-Swedish". On this dictionary, which purportedly contains some 100,000 items, he seems to have spent 15 years.

For us, United-Suryoye, being a Syriac/Aramaic association, the annunciation came as less laudable, if not exasperatingly, when the news reached us.

It reminded us of a similar case. In 1984, there appeared in like manner an "Assyrian-German" dictionary by an "Assyrian" author, Issa Hanna, with the support of the "Assyrian" Mesopotamien Verein (Mesopotamia Union).

A short time thereafter, however, the Diocese Council of the Syriac-orthodox Church of Central Europe in Glane/Losser (the Netherlands), requested from Prof. Dr. Otto Jastrow, a leading linguist/Aramaist from the Erlangen-Nürnberg University, to submit an academic response with special regard to the use of the nomenclature "Assyrian".

In his elucidation of May 20th,1985, the professor admitted to the Council that, as a scholar, one ought to raise his voice if erroneous assertions are spread among the general public. And so he did. The general public, Prof. Jastrow, noted, is being confused and even mislead, highly motivated by an "Assyrian" (political) ideology. Some of the admonishing words of Prof. Jastrow merit to be quoted verbatim:

“What is, however, absolutely unacceptable and can only be called blatant ignorance, is the fact that Issa Hanna provides the Old-Syriac with the name ‘Assyrian’. Mr. Hanna’s dictionary contains not a single word Assyrian; it is a dictionary of the Old-Syriac, also called Classical Syriac, or the (here I quote Carl Brockelmann) ‘literary language of the Christians of North-Syria and Mesopotamia, which emerged from Edessa.’ To designate an Old-Syriac dictionary as ‘Assyrian’, is a deception of the general public and should not be accepted." (See http://www.suryoye.com/archive/lexikon/leshono/Prof-Jastrow.htm)

With the recently-appeared dictionary of Mr. Gabriel Afram, the general public again is being misinformed in the same way. Just like Mr. Issa Hanna’s dictionary, Mr. Afram’s dictionary on the whole, too, includes no lexical items in the Assyrian language, but rather in Classical Syriac, i.e. an Aramaic dialect that sprang forth from Edessa and its near environment. This lexicon, it seems, was consciously provided with the erroneous title of "Assyrian-Swedish" in order to carry forth the "Assyrian" propaganda and to convince the world that the modern "Assyrians" are directly linked to the Assyrians of Antiquity. Also, an “Assyrian” union promoted the mentioned "Assyrian-German" lexicon with a propelling strength. This time, however, the "Assyriska Kulturhuset," that is, the “Assyrian Culture House” based in Södertälje (Sweden), is responsible for the publication of a Syriac lexicon with a deceiving title.

Since until now no Syriac-Swedish dictionaries have appeared on the market, many people presumably will buy copies of this work. We, the United-Suryoye association, recommend the purchasers who care about the Aramaic heritage to cut off the wrong title of the dictionary and return it to the author with the reproof: "Hereby I send you your falsification back." We finally ask the Syriac/Aramaic unions and institutions to undertake judicial steps against this kind of deception of our/their Aramaic language.

[GlSHRA]

الأخ آشور الموقر

أستاذي الكريم لقد تم قبل يومين أي بعد دقائق أو ساعات قليلة من نشرك لهذا المقال
القاء نظرة أردت أن تكون بسرعة ، لكني اضطررت أن ألغي قرائته بالسرعة كما يجري في مطالعة الصحف
والسبب ليس لعدم اهتمامي بالموضوع ، إنما وجدت فيه آثار أقدامك في الرحلة الطويلة في التاريخ
ولأهميتها وندرتها يجب على القارئ التأني في قراءتها ومن غير انحياز أو تعصب
وتقييم هذا المقال من الناحية الإيجابية من قبلي أو من قبل آخرون ، يأتي بالدرجة الأولى لكونه
أي المقال مكون من جهود جبارة وحضرتك قمت مرة أخرى بجمعها لنا وهنا يكمن تنسيب هذا المقال
في عداد الدراسات الأكاديمية . لذا فليس حق لانسان أن ينتقد مقالك أستاذي الكريم
وكل من يريد التهجم على آشور الشخص فهو لن يطاله ، أما اذا اراد أحدهم التهجم على مقال آشور
فهو يلحق الضرر بنفسه نظرا لكشف صورة الكسل واللامبالاة التي يرتديها ليل نهار وهو يتجول
مرفوع الرأس بجهله .
أحترم كل المتحاورين ، لكني أركز على كلام السيد  عصام المالح لما يحتويه من رصانة وهدوء في
المداخلة فارضا على القارئ احترامه فشكرا للأخ عصام الماح
وشكرا لك أخي آشور

[Atraya]

تحيه اخويه

الف الف تحيه الى الاخ اشور على هذه الدلاءل القيمه والتي جعلتنا بين خيارين او امرين لا ثالث بينهماإإإ وهو ان نعترف بقوميتنا او نبقى ننكر اصلنا ونتبع بعض الدجالين. وشكرا

[Atraya]

                 الى الاخت كارلين Carlin العزيزه

تحيه اشوريه اصيله وبعد.

لا اعتقد بانك قرات الموضوع باكمله لاننى استطيع القول بان ردك على المقال ليس في محله بتاتا إإإ للاسباب التاليه

اولا ان الاخ اشور برهن على الجميع من نحن والى اين تمتد جذورناإإ

وثانيا هذه البراهين والدلائل لم يكتبها بنفسه وانما مسنوده ومبنيه على حقائق وبراهين كتبها علماء ومؤرخين ورجال دين و مدونه في الكنائس ومؤسسات تعليميه الخ الخ الخ .... و لكن للاسف بعض من  شعبنا الاشوري وصل الى درجه لا يقدر هذه المعلومات ولا يثمنها ويستفيد منها لمعرفه اصله وفصله. بل بالعكس يكون جوابه سلبيا وبدون اى مراعاه او احترام لاراء هولاء الباحثين والمولفين والمؤرخين او رجال الكناءس والمؤسسات العلميه العالميه وحتى ان كانوا هولاء قد عاشوا في تلك الفتره او ما بعدها ودونوا كل ما لديهم من علم ومعرفه ودراسات خاصه استغرقت ربما ساعات او ايام و سنين ـــ نجد *هولاء البعض * يقولون مقالك لا يهمني او خالي من الموضوعيه إإإ فهل لك ان توضحي لي كيف  او  لماذا هذه اللامبالات؟؟؟ولربما اتعلم شيئا منك و اتجنب ان اكتب مثل هذه الردود الممله والغير بناءه.

اخوك الاشوري الصغير
اترايا.

[Ashur Giwargis]

الأخوة المتحاورون

شكراً على ردودكم جميعاً وأرجو مجدداً ألا نأخذ هذه المقالة كتحدي، بل أرجو أن يتم نشرها في كافة المواقع وباستطاعتكم نسخها كبرنامج Word من موقع الحركة الديموقراطية الآشوري (التيار الوطني) - هذا هو الموقع : http://www.zaawa.org

وهذه هي المقالة في الموقع : http://www.zaawa.org/Articles/mqalat_031.htm  وفريبا سيتم نشرها باللغة الإنكليزية على مواقع الإنترنيت، كما سنقوم بإرسال نسخ منها إلى مجموعة من الآكاديميين العراقيين الذين سيشاركون في كتابة الدستور - وأرجو نشرها لمن يرغب، في أي موقع يريده وبدون استشارة الكاتب.

آشور

[carlen]

الى الاخت الصغيرة اتيرايا

في البداية احب ان اوظح باني شاب و لست شابة ياضعيف الفهم والنظر. ثانيا انا كلداني وانا سرياني ولكن لست اشوري, كنت اعتبر الاشوريين اخوتا لنا ومن ابناء شعبنا, لكن بعد الان, بعد ماقالاتكم الفاهية فانكم شعبا لوحدكم, شعبا صغيرا. صحيح باني لم اقرا الموضوع كاملا لاني لست مهتما, لكني مهتم اكثر بالردود على موضوع الفيلسوف اشور. بصراحة انا قارئ كتب كثيرة والكثير منها يؤكد بان كل الشعوب في العراق هم اكراد. ولكني ايضا لا اهتم بكتبهم. لاني انا وعائلتي وعشيرتي يؤمنون باننا كلدان وسنبقى كذلك بمشيئة الله. جميل منكم ان تكونو اشوريين وان تحبو اصلكم. ولكن لاتتدخلو بشوؤن غيركم ان كانو كلدان او سريان او غيرهم.

[عبدالاحد سليمان بولص]

Modern Assyrians

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Teaching in Los Angeles, with a large immigrant community, I get students from all over the world, with especially large contingents from Latin America, Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and the Far East. Among the Middle Eastern students from Iraq, Iran, and Turkey are those who call themselves "Assyrians." This is an interesting and important group of people. They are a remnant of the Aramaic (or Syriac) speaking Christian community of northern Iraq, eastern Turkey, and western Iran, which had meant nearly everyone there in Late Antiquity, but is now a group almost vanished in a sea of Arabic, Kurdish, Turkish, and Persian speaking Moslems. Indeed, they have been persecuted in Turkey and in Iraq, both for cooperating during the years of the British Iraqi Mandate (1920-1932) and simply for not fitting in, religiously and linguistically, to modern nationalist identities. The Iraq of Saddam Hussein has regarded them officially as Christian Arabs, not as a national minority. The community in Iran has recently encountered similar difficulties from the Islâmic Revolution there.

Religious Communities
in Iraq, 1995
Muslims 19,293,300 97%
Chaldeans 390,300 2.0%
Assyrians 87,700 0.4%
Syriac Catholic 55,500 0.3%
Syriac Orthodox 37,200 0.2%

Another community of Christians in the area is a group that calls themselves "Chaldeans." These are Syriac speaking Christians who have entered into doctrinal communion with the Roman Catholic Church. The term "Chaldean" was recognized in 1445 by Pope Eugenius IV. It seems to have been used earlier with other, interchangeable terms for the Christians of Mesopotamia. The actual "Chaldeans" were Aramaeans (though some now question this) who settled in southern Iraq, forming the basis of the Neo-Babylonian revival of the X (or XI) Dynasty of Babylon. The expression "Ur of the Chaldees" is anachronistic when applied to the original Ur of the Sumerians, who had nothing to do with the Chaldeans and were long gone before the Chaldeans were anywhere near even existing. As descendants of real Aramaeans, the modern Chaldeans are more likely to be related to the real Chaldeans than anyone else, but there is no documentary or historical connection that can be traced after the age of Nebuchadnezzar, when the ethnic Chaldeans had blended into the older Babylonian population, and Aramaic began to be spoken by everyone. The Patriarchs Assyrian and Chaldean Churches (originally the "Patriarchs of the East") are give elsewhere at this site.

The Assyrians and Chaldeans are not the last people speaking descendants of Aramaic. There was an Aramaic speaking Jewish community in Kurdistan, but they now all, apparently, have moved to Israel [cf. Robert D. Hoberman, The Syntax and Semantics of Verb Morphology in Modern Aramaic, A Jewish Dialect of Iraqi Kurdistan, American Oriental Society, New Haven, 1989]. A confusing factor is that the cultural boundary does not follow the linguistic boundary. Speaking dialects closely related to those of the Assyrians, Chaldeans, and Jews (Eastern Aramaic) are other Orthdox Christians who religiously are affiliated with the Western Syriac tradition. Culturally, they were in Roman territory (upper Mesopotamia), and looked to the Patriarchate of Antioch, rather than to the Church of the East, originally on Sassanid territory, whence the Assyrian and Chaldean communities derive. These Christians tend to see themselves as Syrians or Aramaeans. What remains of actual Western dialects of Syriac/Aramaean is only to be found in three villages near Damascus, in the Anti-Lebanon Mountains on the border between Syria and Lebanon. Stories about them turn up occasionally right before Christmas, with the plausible hook that this is the surviving language that would be the closest to the language actually spoken by Jesus -- who used a dialect of Aramaic, not Hebrew, for daily life. There is little hope for the survival of this community of Syriac speakers, however. At the same time, the Western Syriac alphabet sometimes is used to write Arabic by Lebanese Maronite Christians. This used to be characteristic in the Middle Ages:  Whatever language you speak, you write it in the alphabet of your religion. Thus, Moses Maimonides wrote Arabic, Ashkenazic Jews wrote German (Yiddish), and Sephardic Jews wrote Spanish (Ladino), in Hebrew letters. In India, Moslems wrote Hindustani in Arabic letters (becoming Urdu) and Hindus wrote it in the Sanskrit Devanagari letters (becoming Hindi).

Self-identified Chaldeans and Aramaeans are frequently called "Assyrians" by Assyrian nationalists. This is deeply resented by many or even most in those communities, who do not want to be identified, wholly or even partially, with the ancient Assyrians, or with modern Assyrian nationalism. This has led to intense dispute, for instance, over census categories in the United States and about statements in the press referring to the ethnic communities in Iraq. Thus, press reports sometimes even say that the Christian community in Iraq speaks "Assyrian," a language that disappeared in ancient times (though many Assyrians do believe they are speaking ancient Assyrian). Some Assyrians even reject their ancient Christianity and wish to revive the worship of Assyrian gods, like Ashur. This would not be tolerated most predominantly Islamic countries.

[henri bedros kifa]

الى السيد اشور  كيوركيس المحترم
 اولا اسمح لي ان اهنئك على معلوماتك الهائلة عن تاريخنا ، و اسمح لي ان اهنئك على مدرستك او مفهومك الجديد لعلم التاريخ  بالنسبة لك = سرجون الاكادي هو اشوري إ =سوف اعلق على نظريتك الجديدة حول
 الشعب الاكادي المسكين المنقرض اي بدون اي مدافع عن لغتهم و ثقافتهم اللهم الا المؤرخين المختصين
 بعلم الاشوريات الذين لم و لن يتعرفوا على بحثك السياسي ـ التاريخي . لقد كتبت عن الاكاديين ما يلي
    طبعا  بدون اي براهين او شواهد تاريخية .
 1 ـ  نحن احفاد الاكاديين و لكن لا يوجد قومية اكادية
 2 ـ  لا يوجد ثقافة اكادية .
 3 ـ اللغة = الاكادية= منسوبة الى الجغرافيا وليس الى = الشعب = .
 4 ـ لا يوجد= نزعة قومية =اكادية قديمة إ .
 5 ـ الفتوحات الاشورية التي حملت الثقافة الاشورية ومحت باقي الثقافات بسياسة الصهر القومي في بحر المجتمع الاشوريالواسع .

   هذه الافكار   التي ذكرتها في بحثك السياسي غير صحيحة و سوف نشرح لك الاخطاء التاريخية ، ربما
 بعض قراء عنكاوا لم يلاحظوها ،  اليك الان تعليقي المتواضع
  1 ـ  نحن لسنا باحفاد الاكاديين لان الشعب الاكادي قد لعب دوره التاريخي و انفقض ذكره في التاريخ مثل شعوب
       عديدة  الميتنيين في ارام نهرين و الشعب الكوشي في بلاد اكاد بالذات . بقايا الشعب الاكادي قد انصهر
       في الشعب الكلداني  الارامي و لذالك السبب  زالت التسمية  بلاد اكاد من  التاريخ و حلت مكانها تسمية
        بيث اراماي اي بلاد الاراميين و كتب اجدادنا مليئة بالبراهين . اخيرا  الشعوب القديمة لم تعرف الفكر  والانتماء
       القومي بالمفهوم المعاصر .  الاشوريون هم ايضا لم يكن عندهم الفكر والانتماء القومي .  و ما ذكره نقلا عن
       باربولا ليس برهانا على و جود قومية اشورية .

 2 ـ  انت  تنكر وجود الثقافة الاكادية لاسباب سياسية مبنية على جهل و تجاهل للتاريخ الاكاديمي . الشعب
     الاكادي هو شعب شرقي قريب جدا من الاموريين و الكنعانيين و الاراميين . طور الكتابة المسمارية التي اخذها
     من الشعب السو مري و صارت اللغة المكتوبة والمحكية في كل الشرق القديم . لقد اصبحت بابل العاصمة
     الادارية والثقافيةللعالم القديم ، عيد اكيتو ، بالمناسبة هو عيد اكادي بابلي  يلعب الاله مردوك الدور الرئيسي
     فيه ، لقد نقل الشعب الاكادي ملحمة غلغامش السومرية الى الشعوب القديمة ومنها الشعب الاشوري، لا بل
      ترك لنا الشعب الاكادي ملاحم جديدة ، نقلها الملك الاشوري اشوربانيبال  الى مكتبته  الشهيرة .
      العالم اجمع يعرف الدور الثقافي و الحضاري للشعب الاكادي و لكن طرحكم السياسي لا يعرف او بالاحرى لا
      يعترف بوجود حضارة و لغة و شعب اكادي لان طرحكم كان و لا يزال مبن على تزوير للتاريخ .

 3 ـ الفكر الاشوري لا يعترف بوجود شعب اكادي بالنسبة لكم سرجون الاكادي هو اشوري  إ الغاية هي شريفة
     جدا و هي = الادعاء= بوجود لغة اشورية قديمة و ذلك بسرقة اللغة الاكادية  و نسبها الى الشعب الاشوري
    و ذلك للادعاء بوجود لغة اشورية حديثة و هذه المرة على حساب الشعب الارامي السرياني . هذه هي نقاط
    الضعف في الطرح  الاشوري .

 4 ـ لا يوجد = نزعة قومية = اكادية قديمة إ  و نحن نرد عليك لا يوجد نزعة قومية اشورية قديمة إ

 5 ـ الاحتلال الاشوري لم يحمل معه الثقافة الاشورية الى الشعب الاكادي  و متى كان التلميذ متفوق على
    معلمه إ لقد تفاعلت الحضارات القديمة  ، هل نسيت ان الاشوريين  اخذوا  عيد اكيتو  من بلاد اكاد  ؟
    اغلب  لوحات الاجر المكتشفة في مكتبة اشوربانيبال هي من بابل . غير صحيح ان الثقافة الاشورية قد حت
   = الثقافات = القديمة  .في البلاط الاشوري كنا نرى مغنين اراميين و مصريين  و اكاديين و كنعانيين ...
    لم يصهر  الاشوريون الشعوب القديمة بل ان الشعب الاشوري  قد انصهر   في الشعب الكلداني الارامي .
   و ذلك لان سياسة سبي الشعوب المقهورة  خاصة القبائل الكلدانية والارامية  كانت عاقبتها وخيمة على
   الاشوريين في بلادهم و موطنهم . كتب  المؤرخ  المختص في علم الاشوريات H. TADMOR  في بحثه
   THE  ARAMAIZATION OF ASSYRIA  صفحة 449  = انه صار  الان مقبولا  عامة بان الاراميين المغلوبين
   و غيرهم من الشعوب السامية في الغرب ، قد اثروا بقوة  في التطور الحضاري لغالبيهم = و طبعا يقصد
   الاشوريين ، يستخلص  هذا المؤرخ صفحة 459 ان عدد  الاراميين  قد فاق بكثير عدد الاشوريين داخل بلاد
   اشور و ذلك بسبب ضم الممالك الارامية الى الامبراطورية الاشورية و ايضا بسبب  سبي اعداد كبيرة من
   الاراميين الى قلب اشور .
      لقد قدم  المؤرخ  GARELLI  في بحثه = Importance   et  role  des  Araméens  dans  l'Administration
       de l'Empire  Assyrien  = عشرات البراهين  على اراميين  لعبوا  دورا  كبيرا في الامبراطورية الاشورية  مثل
      احيقار الارامي و الملكة الارامية  ناقياـ زاكوتو والدة الملكين اسرحدون و اشوربانيبال . في الصفحة 444
     يذكر  GARELLI  ان التفاعل الحضاري   مع   الاشوريين كان لصالح الاراميين = و بهذه  الطريقة، المغلوبون
     في القرن العاشر  (  الاراميون )  استطاعوا  ان ياخذوا  بثارهم من غالبيهم القساة ( الاشوريين) .

اخيرا  نحن نؤكد ان الاشوريين لم يمحو الثقافات و الحضارات القديمة بل ان الطرح  الاشوري السياسي الذي
 يتجاهل التاريخ العلمي ـ كما نرى في بحث السيد اشور السياسي ـ  يحاول  محو  تواريخ الشعوب القديمة
 مثل الشعب الاكادي ثم الكلداني و الارامي و ذلك لاهداف سياسية و هي فرض التسمية الاشورية على
احفاد الكلدانين و الاراميين .

  هنري بدروس كيفا

[Ashur Giwargis]

السيد هنري بدروس بدروس المحترم

لم نرك هذه المرة تدافع عن إسم "السريان" !!!  ما القضية ؟ ولماذا تمسكت بالموضوع الأقل أهمية في البحث ؟

لن أعطي هذا الموضوع أهمية لأنني قلت في المقالة بأنني أتطرّق إلى الآكاديين "من باب الحشرية" أي فقط لكي أوصل لك ما أقصده بـ"القومية الآشورية" وأنت حرّ أن تقتنع أم لا. ثمّ أستطيع أن أورد مصادر أكثر أهمية من مصادرك التي تعدّ "نظريات"، ولكنني أوردت مؤرخين قدماء تحدثوأ عن الوجود الآشوري بوذلك فإن النظريات التي يحضرها لنا من وقت إلى آخر تبطل.

آشور

[william homa]

اخي المحترم هنري
حقا انك اصيل فلا تفكر الا بعقل بدوي ضيق. اذا كنا نحن ثلاميذ الاكاديين  ولذلك لم نستطع ان نطور ما توارثناه منهم لان التلميذ يتعلم من  استاذه افلا ترى معي ان تلميذ
اليوم قد يصبح غدا معلما بارعا في كافة مناحي الحياة وان لم يكن هذا صحيحا لظل الانسان  يراوح  مكانه في سذاجة بداوته الفطرية

[Atouraya]

ان كلمة الحق لا تعجب احد؟


حتى ان مشاركاتي كلها تمسح؟

الله يعينك يا سيد اشور، واتمنى ان تظع هذا البحث الصادق في صفحة خاصة وان يساعدك الاخوان الاشوريين بترجمته الى الانكليزية والتركية والفارسية حتى يطلع اكبر عدد من ابناء شعبنا الى تاريخهم العريق ويستنتجوا بانفسهم نوايا الاعداء ضدنا.


القومية=اشورية.

[homeh]

الاسد يبقى اسمه الاسد حتى وان لم يعترف بذلك وفضل اسم اخر
والاشوري سيبقى اشوري رغم عنه

[terry toraya]

اخي الجبار اشور

تحية اشورية

المثل يقول انت رجل والرجال قليلون..وانا اقول انت مؤرخ والمؤرخون قليلون..باركك الرب وباركك اشور الاله وباركتك الامة الاشورية ..

تقبل تحياتي واعجابي والى المزيد من الحقائق التاريخية...

اخوك بالدم تيادورس

[سلام يوسف]

  الى السيد آشور كيوركيس المحترم ,


يبدو أنك قد صرفت من وقتك كثيرآ للبحث و التقصي عن كلمة ( آشور ) في كلمات القادة و المؤرخين و المستشرقين و رجالات الدين و السياسة في الزمن الغابر و الحديث و نبشت في بطون كتب التأريخ كي تلتقط لنا كلمة ( آشور ) , و لم تفوتك غير حكايات ألف ليلة و ليلة .
إن سبر أغوار التأريخ حق ليس لأحد الحق في الأعتراض عليه و لكن عليك أن تكون موضوعيآ و محايدآ و علميآ في تفسيرك و تحليلك للحقائق التأريخية التي تمت ذكرها في موضوعك هذا , و خاصة في ما يخص بتأريخ شعبنا البيت نهريني , و بما أنك لست عراقيآ فلا أعتقد بأن لك القابلية في تفسير الأحداث التأريخية المهمة و المعقدة التي حدثت في بلاد ما بين النهرين , و أؤكد لك بأن كل علماء تأريخ الحضارات القديمة من العراقيين و غير العراقيين يؤكدون على وجود أقوام و شعوب و قبائل متعددة سكنت تلك المنطقة , فليس لك الحق في فرض التسمية الآشورية على السكان الأصليين لبلاد ما بين النهرين , و هذا هو برأي جوهر الخلاف بين أبناء الشعب الواحد من الكلدانيين و المؤمنين بالتسمية الآشورية , فبما أنك تعتبر وجود التسمية الآشورية في كتب التأريخ دلالة على وجود الأمة الآشورية فلماذا لاتعتبر وجود التسميات الأخرى كالكلدانية و السريانية و الآرامية و الأكدية و السومرية دلالة أيضآ على وجود تلك الأمم في بلاد مابين النهرين خاصة أذا أعتبرنا بأن الأسم دلالة مهمة على وجود الشعب نفسه , فأذا لم يكن هناك شعب كلداني مثلآ لم نكن نعرف أسمه أصلآ و هذا الشيء ينطبق على كل شعوب العالم فالأسم هو أحد الأدلة المادية القاطعة على وجود شيء ما , و يؤسفني أن أقول لك بأنك تنطلق في تفسير الأحداث التأريخية لشعبنا البيت نهريني من منطلق حزبي و طائفي ضيق خاصة ونحن نعلم حق المعرفة بأن لبنان منخور الجسد بفعل طائفيته , فلا تحاول أستغلال التأريخ لأغراض سياسية معينة لأن ذلك يفقد مصداقية بحثك هذا .
يا سيدي آشور , لقد حاولت منذ السطر الأول من مقالتك هذه لألغاء الكلدان من التأريخ العراقي رغم أنك ذكرت التسمية الكلدانية مرات كثيرة و لكنك لم تستطيع من أغفال الحدث الأهم و الأقوى في التأريخين القديم و الحديث الذي تمثل في سقوط الأمبراطورية الآشورية ككيان سياسي سنة 612 قبل الميلاد و لكنك نسيت أو تناسيت عن عمد أن تذكر لنا من هم الذين أسقطوا أمبراطوريتك العتيدة ؟؟ , كل كتب التأريخ تقول لنا بأن الكلدان العراقيين هم الذين أسقطوا الدولة الآشورية فماذا تقول أنت ؟؟؟ ألا يعني هذا بأن الآشوريين المتعصبين قوميآ من أمثالك و معهم حفنة من الكلدان المتأشورين ينظرون بعين واحدة على حقائق التأريخ حيث لا يرون فيها غير كلمة آشور , أما عندما يتعلق الأمر بالكلدان فأنهم يغمضون عيونهم حتى لا يروا أي شيء يتعلق بتأريخهم .
كفاكم ضحكآ على الذقون و كفاكم تزويرآ للحقائق التأريخية فشعبنا البيت نهريني لا يحتاج اليوم الى أعادة أمجاد الأمبراطوريات الميتة منذ ألاف السنين بل يحتاج الى نظام ديمقراطي حقيقي يتساوى فيه الجميع و يضمن لنا حقوقنا الثقافية و الأدارية و يكفل لنا حقوق المواطنة التي هي أهم بكثير من التغني على أطلال الأمبراطورية الآشورية المنقرضة و علينا جميعآ ككلدان و آثوريين و سريان أن نقر و نعترف بأن زمن الأمبراطوريات قد ولى الى غير رجعة فنحن أبناء اليوم نعيش عصر الفضائيات و العالم أصبح قرية صغيرة و ليس هناك قوة على الأرض بقادرة على وقف عجلة تطور الشعوب , فشعبنا الكلداني الآثوري السرياني الآن هو جزء لا يتجزأ من شعبنا العراقي و علينا أن نناضل مع القوى الخيرة و الديمقراطية العراقية من أجل وضع دستور عراقي علماني و متطور يمثل حقوق كل شرائح المجتمع العراقي و أن نعمل يدآ بيد من أجل أزالة أثار دكتاتورية البعث و قلع جذور الأرهاب من بلادنا , هذه هي برأي أهم أهداف المرحلة الحالية التي نمر بها , أما هؤلاء الذين يبنون أمبراطورياتهم الهلامية في خيالاتهم النرجسية المريضة هم أحد أسباب تخلفنا و أنقساماتنا و تشرذمنا , فأستفيقوا من سباتكم العميق قبل فوات الأوان .

[Ashur Giwargis]

الأخ العزيز سلام يوسف

تحية آشورية أو عراقية (توأمان لا يفترقان)

عزيزي، لماذا تأتي ردودكم دائماً خارجة عن الموضوع ؟ ... هذا يحدّثني عن فخره بالآكاديين وذلك عن "تسمياتنا الجميلة" وذاك عن بطولات "الكلدان" ؟؟

يا أخي البحث لا يتطرق إلى الملحمة الكلدانية، بل إلى انتمائك القومي وعلاقتك بكلدان الأمس الذين تناولت بطولاتهم، ثم من قال لك أنني لم أذكرها ؟ أعد قراءة مقولة عالم الآشوريات سيمو بربولا وستراه يقول "الكثير من الآشوريين يسمون أنفيهم كلداناً علماً أن كلدان الأمس هم الذين أسقطوا الإمبراطورية الآشورية ! " وأرجو أن تفهم الرسالة جيداً.

ثانياً أنا أتفق معك وأشدّ على يدك بأن العالم اليوم أصبح قرية صغيرة ولذلك أرسلت نسخاً من هذا البحث (بعد حذف المقاطع التي تتحدّث عن "مناضلينا") إلى مجموعة من الآكاديميين العراقيين المشاركين في صياغة الدستور، وأرجو أن يطالب دعاة الكلدانية الآكاديميين العراقيين بتثبيت ما يُسمّى "القومية الكلدانية" في الدستور كما يفعل القسم الآخر من الآشوريين (أتحداهم لن يفعلوها !!)

وبما أنك تحدّثت عن "المؤرخين العراقيين"، فها أنا أورد لك مقلة البروفسور بهنام أبو الصوف عالم التاريخ العراقي المشهور والذي قال في محاضرته "علاقة كلدان اليوم بكلدان الأمس" ما يلي: [إن أهالي كل القرى التي تدعى "كلدانية" - تلكيف، ألقوش، بطنايا، تللسقف، كرمليس، قرقوش، وغيرها أخرى، ليس لهل أية علاقة بالإسم الكلداني المعروف تاريخياً. بل أن هذه التسمية جائتنا حديثاً من الغرب وبالتحديد من روما. وأنتم يا أهالي هذه القرى آشوريين أصلاً من بقايا الإمبراطورية الآشورية، فأنا مثلاً من مواليد الموصل وإبن الكنيسة الكلدانية إلاّ أنني آشوري، وكلنا، يراناً وكلداناً ومارونيين، آشوريين] ... لا أعلم، ربّما ستتهم البروفسور أبو الصوف بـ"التأشوُر"... أنت حرّ، ولكن لا تنسى بأنك أنت من استشهد بالمؤرّخين العراقيين.

وهناك مؤرّخ "عراقي" آخر وهو الدكتور دوني جورج، المدير العام للآثار العراقية، الذي أكد على استحالة ورود أسماء قومية لـ"شعبنا" غير الإسم الآشوري، قبل 4 أيام فقط، وذلك في البيان التالي:

حزب بيت نهرين الديمقراطي الآشوري
 يلتقي المدير العام للآثار الدكتور دوني جورج

صوت بيت نهرين :

بتاريخ 5 تموز 2005 التقى وفد من قيادة حزبنا ضم السادة ادور يؤارش عضو المكتب السياسي وخوشابا بهرام عضو اللجنة المركزية للحزب، الدكتور الآشوري دوني جورج المدير العام للآثار.
وخلال اللقاء ناقش الطرفان المسألة القومية لشعبنا الآشوري وضمان الحقوق القومية له بما يناسب حضارته التي تصل الى الـ7 الآف سنة، وهي اقدم حضارة وجدت في العراق والعالم.
وبما يخص التسمية المركبة والتسميات الأخرى، فقد اوضح الدكتور الآشوري دوني جورج، بأن التسمية المركبة لشعبنا ليست صحيحة ولا تدل على الأرث الحضاري والتأريخي لشعبنا الآشوري، وكذلك فقد قال بأن التسمية المركبة صيغت محاولة لتوحيد شعبنا بطوائفه المتعددة التسميات، ولكن رفضها الشعب الآشوري من (الكلدان، الآثوريين، السريان)، واليوم كوني مديرا عاما للآثار فأنني على يقين بما اقوله وما تثبته الأبحاث التأريخية والآثار القديمة والنصوص المكتوبة باللغة الآشورية القديمة (المسمارية)، اقر واعترف كما يعلم الجميع بأن حضارة العراق ... آشورية ولنا الفخر بها جميعا كونها اقدم حضارة عرفت في العالم، واعطت الكثير من الخدمات والعلوم والأبتكارات القيمة يستند عليها علماء اليوم ببراءة اختراعاتهم للتقنيات المتطورة والعجيبة التي تقدم المساعدة للأنسانية.
ومن جانبه اوضح وفد حزبنا ان الأوقات القادمة ضرورية جدا لشعبنا الآشوري ومن واجب كل فرد آشوري مخلص أن يلفظ الحقيقة ويقولها علنا، ويكفينا فخرا وأعتزازا بأننا أحفاد اولئك الأجداد العظام (الآشوريون)، الذين قدموا الكثير من الأمور خدمة للبشرية.


                                          اعلام حزب بيت نهرين الديمقراطي الآشوري
                                                                            تموز 2005   

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